1. Good choice of category heading David, this is utterly baffling. The Jesus I read about would be far more concerned with her friend’s self righteous arrogance than with her opinion that perhaps gay couples deserve equal rights.

   Man, where’s Tony Campolo when you need him.

   — Jordan · Sep 18, 01:12 AM · #

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2. Most christians only look at abortion and gay marriage as their deciding factor in the presidential campaign. It won’t matter who the candidates are or what they stand for, they’ll go republican because it’s what the party believes. But going back to this lady helping people in slovakia. It’s stupid to think that some christians get their panties in a bunch when they read one word, obamarama, and jump off a cliff. I’m a christian and i support obama, so that means i shouldn’t go out to the daily bread this saturday to stock shelves. Christians shouldn’t stop funding if your going out and expanding the kingdom of god just because of your political affiliation. If christians believe jesus comes first and we live for Him, it shouldn’t matter what baggage we carry as long as we’re do it from Him.

   “When outsiders who have never heard of God’s law follow it more or less by instinct, they confirm its truth by their obedience. They show that God’s law is not something alien, imposed on us from without, but woven into the very fabric of our creation.” Romans 2:14-15 Msg (That’s HOT)

   — Ryan · Sep 18, 02:49 AM · #

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3. People have the right to decide if they want to support someone financially for the work of the ministry. I make choices everyday about who to support. I don’t eat at McDonald’s, I don’t support GLBT groups and I don’t send PETA any money either. People can choose. If you are so upset about it, start sponsoring this lady ministering in Slovakia.

   — Paulo · Sep 18, 10:02 AM · #

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4. @Paulo: Of course people can support whoever they want. But in this situation, we have people who were going to contribute until they got a sense that Heather might be supporting Obama. That’s the only factor. And while sure, that’s anyone’s right to decide, there is a point where it stops being conviction and starts being intentional narrow-mindedness about the way politics do and don’t work. And the reason I posted it is because I think it is illustrative of a larger problem.

   On the other hand, it seems that anyone who depends on evangelicals for support might know that airing one’s political allegiances is probably a bad idea. Heather says she wouldn’t have if she had known it would interfere with her mission, and I believe her. I guess now she knows.

   — David S. · Sep 18, 01:41 PM · #

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5. I still find all of this troubling. I realize that Christians don’t want to be considered only single, or double-issue voters, or to be taken for granted as only ever voting Republican. But at the same time, either abortion matters or it doesn’t. This doesn’t even have to be a religious issue. If we are to have the scientifically observed belief that life begins at conception, how can we, as humans in good conscience, tolerate such a cruel and demeaning practice as abortion? There are lots of things I like about Obama, just as there are many things I like about McCain. But as charismatic as Obama is, and as dissatisfied as I am with George Bush, I cannot be counted as someone who is so cavalier about life issues.

   Ryan, I am curious how you reconcile this, as a Christian. Do you care more about the issues that Obama excels in, from a Christian point of view, (such as social justice, and the like) than you do the abortion issue? Or do you think that as abortion is simply deeply entrenched in law, it won’t matter anyway? I don’t mean to single you out in derision, I honestly am curious to know: How does a Christian knowingly vote for the candidate who vociferously supports abortion?

   — Gwen K · Sep 19, 05:11 AM · #

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6. @ Gwen K: Sorry to reply if you weren’t talking to me, but I’ll try to be succinct. There is only really an abstract dissonance to reconcile about Obama and abortion, since the chances of his presidency impacting the issue are little to none. There is the Supreme Court, but the most Obama could do in two terms would be to balance it from its current rightward tilt. And then there is the fact that even reversing Roe does not make abortion illegal in the United States.

   I’m not really presenting an all-around case for Obama, and I respect those who can’t vote for him because of his abortion stance. But I guess I look at the rest of what’s happening in our country, and it seems irresponsible to hold out on any one issue (especially one that’s unlikely to be addressed either way).

   — David S. · Sep 19, 10:18 AM · #

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7. Here’s another view. What if the government didn’t regulate ‘moral’ decisions at all? Abortion and gay marriage aren’t focus factors to me. OBVIOUSLY this woman never wanted to jeopardize her mission work and it’s a sad coincidence that her financial backing just happens to rest on the shoulders of a candidate.

   — Brandon · Sep 19, 12:49 PM · #

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8. @Gwen K: You are excelling the initial point i made in my first post. Christians only look at abortion as the deciding factor. We can’t be so closed minded on an issue that it taints all of the other problems our country faces. Don’t get me wrong, I think abortion is wrong and shouldn’t be happening, but I’m also looking at our economy, the war, employment rates, etc. These are the main things that voters and politicians are addressing right now since they are directly impacting the way we live our lives on a daily basis. As David said, the scale is tipped so far to one side, it takes many many years for a little impact to be felt. I know the decisions we make right now will effect us down the road, but i think we’re ready for some action now.

   Here’s a quote in a message i received from a friend of mine.She’s a christian and a democrat…

   “it seems to me that this is exactly why christians get the bad rap of being people who can’t think for themselves….its so cultish. which party takes care of the poor? which party pushed for child labor laws? which party pushed for free education for all? which party pushed for civil liberty and women’s rights?

   which party is responsible for a president that is so pathetic that tv commercials ridicule him?

   i do not agree with abortion at all…i heard a heartbeast at 4 weeks after conception….but how many babies and little ones have been killed in our senseless war? come on Jesus Freaks…let’s think for ourselves and truly get a little freaky!!

   it is almost like christians have been brainwashed by the republicans….”

   That’s nice. :)

   — Ryan · Sep 19, 11:48 PM · #

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9. I get what you’re all saying, and you’ve all been very respectful, but for me, it’s not good enough.

   Does it really satisfy you that Obama wants zero limitations on abortion simply because it is unlikely the Roe v Wade decision will be overturned? To me that sounds pretty weak. It doesn’t sound that far away from “Well, what’s the use in trying, it won’t change anything.” If we as Christians, or even as people let that excuse sink in too deeply, a lot of good might go unaccomplished. It makes me feel very uneasy how cavalierly phrases like that have been tossed around regarding this election, even on this site at times.

   I’m no fan of the war in Iraq, but casual and cruel deaths involved in abortion simply move me more.

   I fear that Christianity is being moved by “cool” and not the other way around. So many Christians want to stand out, but for the wrong reason. It seems to me like a lot of Christians I know want to vote Obama because they are expected to do the opposite. In your own argument you seem to be swayed by tv commercials mocking republican leaders. Since when do Christians make their decisions based on things like this? It’s just as easy to put forth the idea that young people are being brainwashed by the popular television culture which has embraced Obama over all other candidates as it is to believe that a single political party has brainwashed a 2000 year old faith.

   I hear what you’re saying about unemployment and social justice and the like, but for me, those issues are not of the same urgency of the very first thing mentioned in the text we base our Country upon. The right to life,THEN liberty, and all the rest. If we can’t protect and preserve that first one, it doesn’t matter as much to me that our banks are solvent or we work on electric cars.

   So maybe I am a cliche, but I just will not enter a voting booth and say “yes, I am willing this person who supports the termination of life into the highest office in the land.” I couldn’t live with myself if I could.

   I wish it were easier for me to vote Democratic. I wish that the party, as a whole, viewed this as the human rights issue they should. Instead of Christians having to hold their nose and align themselves with evils like abortion, why can’t there be a candidate who embodies labour laws and women’s suffrage, and all the rest, who also values and protects life? I don’t think Christians have been brainwashed by Republicans. It is simply that, in this election, the Republican party’s platform aligns itself more closely to the concerns of Christians like myself. I am thinking for myself, and am voting McCain.

   — Gwen K · Sep 20, 06:36 AM · #

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10. “Well, it’s the use of trying…” is a sad excuse. I agree with you. But welcome to the real world. Our mission is to bring the kingdom of heaven to earth, but we have to still remember, it’s the world. I agree with 99% of what you’re saying. We’re just getting to the nitty gritty stuff. I wish our society wasn’t so focused on tv and celebrities. And even though it sucks major, it’s the way it is in this lifetime. Abortion won’t be changed in the next 10 years. It takes more than a republican presidents promise to do that. It’s really the promise of the system as a whole. and he’s 1% of that whole. :/

    A friend of mine blogs on his blogspot site. It’s called “we’re sorry.” here’s a post on abortion. it’s pretty good…

    http://weresorry.blogspot.com/2008/08/two-rights-dont-make-and-being-loudest_18.html

    — Ryan · Sep 20, 03:06 PM · #

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11. That’s a super weak argument. We’re also ten years away from mass-producing electric or natural gas cars. Does that or should that diminish passion for that movement? And between that and the preservation of human life, which should we be more optimistic about? Which should be our priority?

    — Tonia · Sep 21, 02:34 PM · #

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12. I agree with Gwen. It’d be one thing to tolerate Obama temporarily if there was a chance of making progress on abortion in the meantime (i.e. the incremental approach) but there just isn’t. And regarding SCOTUS appointments, “the most Obama could do in two terms is balance it from it’s rightward tilt”? I think that’s mistaken—certainly on abortion, the court is pretty evenly balanced and even two appointments in 8 years, shifting the balance leftward, is hardly a stretch. As for Christians being single issue voters, that’s certainly a consideration, but the stakes to me just don’t seem comparable—accepting more generous welfare/health insurance programs at the cost, potentially, of hundreds of thousands of human lives. Doesn’t seem like a good trade-off.

    — Les · Sep 22, 09:18 AM · #

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13. “…the stakes to me just don’t seem comparable—accepting more generous welfare/health insurance programs at the cost, potentially, of hundreds of thousands of human lives. Doesn’t seem like a good trade-off.”

    I couldn’t agree more, Les.

    Frankly,

    — Carmen · Sep 22, 09:48 AM · #

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14. okay. all christians vote Republican and John McCain. Everyone. ALL OF THEM! It seems i’m the only misfiring gun here. i’ll join the club. vote mccain! he’s the best! amazing! thank jesus for john mccain! he’s so incredible! he has all the answers to what i’m concerned about…abortion! only abortion! that’s all that matters! yeah john mccain! peace….

    — Ryan · Sep 22, 10:24 PM · #

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15. Come on. No one here has said “you must vote McCain“or anything like that. Abortion is one issue, among many that is important to people of all stripes, including Christians. All that’s gone on here was people asking questions, and raising concerns, same as you. No one else rushed to an arbitrary, sarcastic snit of a conclusion.

    I for one wish that as someone who cares about pro-life issues, I had even another option in this area. But no prominent democrat in years has been remotely decent on this issue. Instead of trying to convince Christians to stop caring about life issues as much as they do, maybe we should be trying to convince dems and third party candidates to start caring about issues that will make them competitive with the Christian vote.

    But anyway, I don’t believe anyone here has said that abortion is all that matters, only that it does indeed matter.

    — Tonia · Sep 23, 01:18 PM · #

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16. That’s pretty unfair, Ryan. People are allowed to vote differently than you without them just being blind, mindless sheep.

    Also, there are plenty of reasons besides Abortion why people should be concerned with Barack Obama. That issue aside, I’d feel a lot more comfortable in times of economic strife and the threat of terror with someone like Biden or Clinton at the helm. In terms of his record, there’s no palpable reason we should believe him to be capable of the things he says he is. He may be, but there’s no record of it.

    — Jared · Sep 23, 05:53 PM · #

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17. it’s politics. we never know who they really are. look at mike guglielmucci who wrote the popular worship song “Healer”. He wrote the song because he said he was diagnosed with cancer and had less than a year to live and this song just flew from jesus to him. It turned out he was lying about the entire thing and he’s addicted to pornography. his song was featured on the new hillsong album “this is our god” and he sung the song with the hillsong worship team with an oxygen tank. it was all a load of bologna. they are recalling all cd’s and dvd’s. this shows you can never truly know if someone is real or not. his wife had no idea. i’m not saying not trust anyone, cause we have to. in this election, i want someone who keeps promises and are real with the issues. both of them are just trying to win votes. why do you think mccaind chose palin? right after the democratic convention was done with hilary, she was chosen for the female vote. again…i just want someone who’s real. :)

    — Ryan · Sep 23, 10:37 PM · #

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18. To those who will not support Obama because of his stance on abortion. What has Bush done to curb abortion rates in the eight years he has been president? I’m not asking to make a point, I’m asking because I genuinely want to know.

    — Taylor · Sep 24, 01:43 PM · #

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19. finally someone who sees as i do. what has bush done? all promises, no results.

    — Ryan · Sep 24, 02:08 PM · #

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20. I admit I’m fuzzy on the details, but he’s done at least two things Obama would never have done: appointed Roberts and Alito to the Supreme Court, and implemented policies that prevented federal funding to international groups from being used directly for abortion. He also came up with that stem-cell research policy which, while sort of a weird compromise, at least acknowledged that human embryoes are human, not test subjects or an involuntary organ donation. I’m not saying by this that Bush is great, just that he did at least a few worthy things.

    — Les · Sep 24, 04:07 PM · #

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21. 8 years…a few things. he’s the best.

    — Ryan · Sep 24, 07:44 PM · #

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22. Wasn’t Bush’s policy on stem cell research pretty open ended? In that he acknowledged that embryos are human, but did not completely outlaw stem cell research. In fact, I believe that experimenting with existing stem cell lines is still allowable. Further still, the use of human embryos are allowed to continue. It is just not sanctioned by the US government which basically boils down to not being funded.

    — Taylor · Sep 27, 11:04 PM · #

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23. first off..Obama is not pro-abortion. He is pro-choice. Conservatives set up a false idea by saying pro-choice is pro abortion. He is against abortion, wanting to lower rates, improve education and expand after birth care for low income families. His disagreement is in the removal of rights from the mother. Lets see this as that issue, not that he is “pro death”.
    here is a great quote of his: ““One area where I think we should have significant agreement is on the idea of reducing unwanted pregnancies because if we can reduce unwanted pregnancies, then it’s much less likely that people resort to abortion. The way to do that is to encourage young people and older people, people of child-bearing years, to act responsibly. Part of acting responsibly – I’ve got two daughters – part of my job as a parent is to communicate to them that sex isn’t casual and that it’s something that they should really think about and not think is just a game.

    “I’m all for education for our young people, encouraging abstinence until marriage, but I also believe that young people do things regardless of what their parents tell them to do and I don’t want my daughters ending up in really difficult situations because I didn’t communicate to them, how to protect themselves if they make a mistake. I think we’ve got to have that kind of comprehensive view that says family planning and education for our young people and so forth – to prevent teen pregnancies, to prevent the kinds of situations that lead to women having to struggle with these difficult decisions and we should be supportive of those efforts. That’s an area where there should be some agreement.”

    also…with the abstinence only, prolife stance of conservatives of Bush and McCain we dont see a decline in abortion rates, actually while Bush has been in office Abortion rates have risen!
    ““Under President Bush, the decade-long trend of declining abortion rates appears to have reversed,” said Glen Stassen, Lewis B. Smedes Professor of Christian Ethics at Fuller Theological Seminary, a leading evangelical divinity school. Citing connections to rising unemployment and soaring healthcare costs, Stassen noted that “economic policy and abortion are not separate issues. They form one moral imperative.”
    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0MKY/is_17_28/ai_n6362676

    The prolife stance of conservatives has actually had a more drastic effect on birth rates and abortion rates…
    Obama stands for a life ethic that not only cares for the unborn (environmental and economically more stable and solvent, therefore caring for famlies more holistically)and the born by providing better care, better jobs, better education.
    the current conservative stance seems to be “you have to give birth, but then youre on your own!”

    — jake dockter · Oct 1, 04:49 PM · #

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24. thank you my precious Jesus! you are amazing! (I’m not referring to jake as Christ, but thanking our creator for creating someone who knows a little about the subject.) I just spout out random thoughts without anything to back them up. :/ I admit it. I’m sorry. But I still don’t think I’m wrong! What I have to say I think is right, I just have no credible sources. :)

    — Ryan · Oct 1, 11:59 PM · #

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